[Libre-soc-dev] #981 update

Andrey Miroshnikov andrey at technepisteme.xyz
Fri Oct 6 20:24:55 BST 2023

On 06/10/2023 19:35, Dmitry Selyutin via Libre-soc-dev wrote:
> The important part is: do _not_ ever post this nonsense about time or
> code size constraints.

If these two points re-occur again in the context of evaluating someone 
else's work, *I will intervene and prevent them being used to undermine 
the effort of the completed task*.

Now, if someone wishes to approximate budgets for *their own work* based 
on the number of lines of code needed for *their task* (I know Jacob and 
Luke used this metric for themselves when scoping out repetitive tasks 
such as unit tests and implementing instructions), I'm happy for them to 
do so, *for the scope of planning a task* (as this metric is only an 
approximate, and actual work may to turn out to be shorter or longer).

> This is _not_ acceptable. It'd have been rude and disrespectful even
> if I was a project newcomer.
> I don't have to tolerate such an attitude, I did enough so that you
> could just be polite and make a damn excuse.

Yes, it was not acceptable. And this was a shortcoming of the system we 
had (and which we're working to improve).

Dmitry, you're an extremely important contributor to this project, and 
*both your expertise and rapid pace work are very much appreciated*.

Again, I apologise for causing you extra stress, especially with your 
recent addition to the family.

To answer Luke's reply which came while I was writing (chaps, please to 
don't fire away emails...)

On 06/10/2023 20:10, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton via Libre-soc-dev wrote:
 > ok i am following CRNHQ "empathetic listening" here. because
 > of Asperger's I have to do this, because it is not "natural"
 > to me.  so please be patient ok?
 > the advice says "only ask questions and do nothing else until
 > you get a yes back" (paraphrasing)
 > can you please tell me if this summary sound right?
 > you do not want to answer "bull****" time and
 > resource questions. they seem to be demeaning and harsh criticism
 > of your work, devaluing it immensely even by just asking the
 > question, yes?
 > is that approximately right?

To answer this, I'll take portions of comments from bug #981.
The task seems complete to me, though, EUR 4500 is a lot of money for 
what looks like a few days at most

I never commented on the budgets I considered too big for tasks handled 
by somebody else. Only cases I consider are when a) my task is 
underrated, b) my task is overrated, c) my task can be dropped at all as 
it's non-critical and its budget can be moved for others. I suggest to 
follow this approach as it's easier for the task owner to rate the task. 

I'd say it fits bug #982. I don't expect much to be done there; also 
parts of it fit ELF support which I, frankly speaking, find to be 

My mistake, where I didn't realise the scope of already completed work.

I must confess that it is a strange news. During our meetings I 
mentioned several times that I'm working on this, discussed the budget 
and whether this task should be moved or not, did all works and then 
found it's effectively cancelled. I'd prefer not to waste my energy and 
do something more practical if I knew that in advance. Please provide 
some rationale.

but i cannot in any way justify signing off a rate of EUR 4,500 per day
when the agreed rate as approved by the EU Independent External Reviewers
is EUR 3,000 a month.  the difference of 50x higher is just too great.

The reason Luke mentioned this, is because there was confusion as to the 
extent of the work done (it *seemed* short, but actually *wasn't*).

I ask for you all to let this issue go. Give it time for situation to 
diffuse, and I ask for your patience. I can't learn and improve 
management for this project overnight. In the last two weeks, I was able 
to make much progress, but there's still a long way to go.

If there is further correspondence, I *urge you* to walk away from the 
keyboard until next week. It's already almost 11:30pm where Dmitry is, 
and Luke, in the UK also getting a little late.

One of my priorities (among many other things), is to move forward with 
the overdue grants, as well as finally sign off the MoU for the ongoing 


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